[SGVLUG] OT: reminder for those who went to MS Heroes event togetSQL NOW

[Charles N Wyble]

Chris Louden wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 4, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Charles N Wyble <charles at thewybles.com> wrote:
>   
>> So how many people on this list actually use/develop/support Microsoft
>> applications? Further more how many people use/develop/support Linux
>> applications? How many people do both?
>>     
>
> I guess I would say I do both. Windows at my primary employer with a
> small dabble of Linux. Anything but Windows for side projects and my
> personal stuff.
>   

Very cool.  It's good to be well versed in many technologies.
> <snip>
> Good for you.
>   

Not sure if that was meant to be condescending or not. :)
>
>   
> When I think of a Desktop Farm I picture chickens in tiny cages that
> only exist for egg production. Just like people crammed in tiny cubes
> in a large room or call center. The company cares nothing for them
> only the profit they can bring. One of my very first jobs after high
> school was working in such a place.
>   

Heh. One way to look at it I guess. I imagine the large cube farms of
people at IBM/RedHat working on open source software fall into that
category? 

> My first Enterprise task was migrating 2000+ users from Groupwise to
> Exchange/Outlook. Not by myself. There were 6 of us. Followed up by
> being the Desktop/Server admin for 115 of those 2000 in a mixed
> NT/Netware environment. It was an Engineering group that used a lot of
> CAD apps for design and structural analysis. That i did do by myself.
> Then I went back to residential service. Removing SoBig and other
> viruses from family PCs paid the same for considerably less hours and
> I was able to regain my sanity. Now I work in the R&D dept for a
> company that provides software, hardware and various other services to
> most of the 9-1-1 centers in the US.
>   

Very cool.

>   
>
> I guess...I use GP/AD almost daily. I have nothing nice to say about either.
>   

I see. Interesting. I suppose we could go into a discussion on what
exactly you dislike about them, but this is  a Linux list. :)

>
>   
>
>
>   
>> SQL Server 2005/2008 is a very powerful system. It has very powerful
>> data warehouse/reporting utilities and all sorts of OLAP/OLTP
>> functionality etc.
>>     
>
> My needs are satisfied my Postgre/MySQL. However for work I use the MS
> versions.
>   

Oh yes. The open source alternatives are very viable. Just that
MySQL/PostGRESQL aren't sufficient in and of themselves for what most
organizations need.  That was my main point.


>   
>> A powerful opensource alternative is called BizGres (
>> http://www.bizgres.org/home.php ). I have yet to use it, but I plan to
>> deploy it in a few months for a several hundred TB per day data warehouse.
>>     
>
> Sounds like a place that likes to put chickens er people in small
> cages er cubes. ;-)
>   

Haha. Actually its for a startup.

>   
>> Sun sells a hardware/software solution at about $25,000 a TB that uses
>> GreenPlum/KETL/Jasper Reports. We may end up purchasing that solution if
>> it gives us significant cost savings.
>>
>> One of the problems that I have with the Linux community in Southern
>> California, is that many of them who participate on the mailing lists
>> aren't large scale enterprise users, or even supporting a small to
>> medium sized growth company. The people who are qualified to make a lot
>> of these software decisions aren't discussing them.
>>     
>
> The problem is that your looking in the wrong place. Or that you are
> expecting something to be somewhere because its logical to you that it
> should be there.
>   

No. I'm not looking in the wrong place. :) I'm simply saying that many
(but certainly not all) people who discuss
the open source vs proprietary software choices on the Linux lists in
Southern California don't know all of the facts.

I have had many discussions about software selection etc with a wide
variety of people in SoCal. Just not on the LUG lists.
> Their just not discussing those decisions here. They are still being
> discussed. Enterprise users IMHO are not attracted to the "community"
> of a mailing list. Their concern is making it work and making it work
> as soon as possible. They go directly to the vendor for that. Places
> like Sempra (large enterprise that came to mind) use Sun and RedHat.
> Not Debian.
>   

Linden Labs (the people who run SecondLife) is a very large Debian shop.
But yes. Many companies/enterprises use RHEL/Solaris.
>   
>> So you have a whole lot of home/hobbyist users saying "use open source
>> software" as the end all to be all, when they haven't managed more then
>> a 10 node network on a DSL line.  Speaking of networking, don't even get
>>     
>
> Ok... I'm a little insulted by that comment. No wait perhaps I am
> unqualified to to speak in a LUG. Perhaps I should unsubscribe. I'll
> be sure to only refer _ONLY_ Enterprise users to subscribe in the
> future.
>   

Um. What?  My comment was specific to statements made by LUG members
regarding open source software who don't have all the information. I
didn't mean it as a comment against LUG members. I apologize if it came
across that way.  I'm not saying only enterprise users should subscribe.
I think you read into my comments just a little to much.

> Sarcasm aside...I got what you are trying to say (i think). I think
> you are just too focused on the Enterprise side of things (perhaps as
> that is logical to you). Not that there is anything wrong with that.
>   

Yes. Most of my experience is at the enterprise level, though I have
implemented Linux at several small businesses as well.

Again my comments were regarding people making  comments about things
that they don't have all the facts for.

> The Enterprise is concerned with one thing. Generating revenue. The
> enterprise does not care if a solution is FOSS or not. The Enterprise
> just wants it to work. Faster, Better, Cheaper as they say. People in
> the Enterprise don't make decisions based on the personal feelings or
> personal preferences (well generally). Decisions are made based on
> whats good for the Enterprise. While there are some similarities
> between the Enterprise and Home/Hobbyist as far as the desire to make
> it work. The urgency and survival of the project to the Home/Hobbyest
> is not a crucial as it is to the Enterprise.
>   

Very true. Based on your words, I think we are very much in agreement
that home/hobbyist users generally aren't qualified to make decisions
regarding enterprise software.

Charles

> I bet that all kinda made me sounds like a hippie conspiracy freak.
>
>