Linux Desktop Summit Re: [SGVLUG] Hello from San Diego

Wed Apr 26 10:34:43 PDT 2006

lol, Give me Slackware, or Give me Death! =)

I wouldn't touch Xandros, Linspire, Mandriva, Fedora, or anything else 
w/ a GUI
installer *unless you paid me*, but that is just me. *no offense to those who
swear by these distros*

Slackware is not for everyone, and not everything is for me, but 
slackware suits
my weird tinker-fetish needs rather nicely.

I (personally) can't stand package management systems, RPM's, YaST/Yum, 
or even
slackware packages. I guess it's an issue of trust, or perhaps paranoia, or
maybe I just like to make my life a bit more daunting, which may 
explain a lot!
=p

Anyhow, I generally do a complete install of the OS, and then simply 
'removepkg'
for stuff that I either know I don't need/want, or feel the desire to 
recompile
from the src (usually server applications), with the ./config 
--directives that
I choose, not what has been spoonfed to me in the form of a package.

This approach lets me rest assure that any security breaches or 
vulnerabilities
to the configuration are MY fault, so I can beat myself up later *and 
hopefully
learn from my mistakes*. =p

As far as 'work-place' goes, I use slackware 10.1 as my desktop @ work, 
next to
a winxp box + kvm switch that collects dust most of the day, except 
when I need
to use the Toad Oracle Client (basically).

One of my co-workers is using Gentoo, and another one uses Ubuntu. The rest of
the organization runs Windows, and I am only 1 of 2 PHP/Oracle 
Programmers here
in a room FULL of Windows/.NET developers. *shrug*

Too each his own I say! =)

On the system that I am maintaining, we run our Oracle Server(s) on 
Redhat, and
our NFS, CVS, and HTTP/S Servers on Debian.

The only reason we use Redhat, is because Oracle 9i works so smoothly 
on redhat
(as compared to debian, says the sr. sysadmin).

I've used SuSE, Core Linux, Redhat, Gentoo, Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, Slackware,
and CentOS, but I simply prefer slackware for my needs.

Anyhow, I didn't mean to cause a distro flame war or anything, I'm just
blabbering my thoughts/experiences. =)

Sean O'Donnell
South Pasadena, CA
sean at seanodonnell.com
http://seanodonnell.com

PGP Public Key: 0x5A74AC15
PGP Public Key Server: http://pgp.mit.edu

Quoting Alex Roston <tungtung at pacbell.net>:

> Hallelujah! Sing it brother!
>
> Now don't get me wrong. I love Slackware, and I use it on the desktop 
> - with a custom version of IceWM, including a custom theme, because 
> the themes that come with IceWM suck, not to mention the rewritten 
> configuration files... I built XDCRoast with "configure," "make" and 
> "make install," just like I built several other desktop components. I 
> also use a heavily customized version of Idesk for icon management, 
> and only turn Nautilus on when I desperately need to, because the 
> latest Nautilus is becoming more and more bloated and 
> Gnome-centric... most of my file management is done the old-fashioned 
> way, by booting a console. CD-Roms are lovingly mounted by hand, the 
> old fashioned way, and I've set my printer up with LPD, using a 
> command-line application called apsfilter, because CUPS is an 
> unreliable piece of garbage that dies at the drop of a hat.
>
> etc.
>
> And etc. again.
>
> At the end of the process, Slackware became an extension of my will.  
> But it took a couple years, and I dread the day I have to upgrade.
>
> But would I reccommend Slackware for a newbie? Or a corporate office? 
> Or someone who doesn't like to tinker? No way in hell - not unless 
> they were willing to pay me to customize it first.
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> Dustin Laurence wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 25, 2006 at 09:43:35AM -0500, sean at seanodonnell.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I have to agree w/ matti... "linux is definitely got a LONG way to 
>>> go on the
>>> desktop. Sad to state this."
>>>
>>> Things that would help make MY life easier on my Slackware Linux Laptop
>>> (slacktop)...
>>>
>>
>> Stop.  Stop right there.  Put the Slackware disk on the table slooowly.
>> Keep your hands where I can see them.  OK, now step away...no, keep
>> those hands in plain sight....
>>
>> Slackware is basically irrelevant to discussions of the Linux desktop.
>> It can be one, just like OpenBSD can be one, if you have the knowledge
>> and like doing things yourself.  When people talk about "The Linux
>> Desktop" they are talking about either
>>
>> (1) The Xandros/Linspire/Mepis style distro.  Mandriva may be in this
>> category, not sure.  Aimed at individual Microsoft Windows users,
>> essentially.
>>
>> (2) The Novell/Red Hat desktops, aimed at corporate deployments.
>>
>> (Yeah, they'd both probably fuss about the individual/corporate labels,
>> but that is how I interpret their differences.)
>>
>> As an example, all of the above try do do as much for you as possible
>> and give you fancy graphical administration tools for the things they
>> can't automate.
>>
>> Slackware is, well, exactly the opposite--simplicity means "don't create
>> a complex automation system or a GUI for something that can be fixed
>> with vi and a text file".
>>
>> Try Xandros or SuSE and we'll talk about the Linux desktop--otherwise,
>> Slackware just assumes you're the expert and will do what you tell it
>> to.  Simply. :-)
>>
>>
>>> 1) A CD/DVD Burning GUI (or even a simple command-line app) that works!
>>> (cdrecord/dvdrecord just plain suck (imo), although it's more of a 
>>> lack of my
>>> own patience and understanding, and lack of time to rtfm).
>>>
>>
>> See, that's the sort of attitude that Slackware punishes mercilessly.
>> :-)
>>
>> My experience is that once cdrecord is configured properly, it Just
>> Works.  Like this:
>>
>>    $ cdrecord I_stole_this_from_the_internet.iso
>>
>> However, configuring it sucks.  Not the least because Schilly (the
>> author) is about as socially adjusted as a rabid stoat and refuses to
>> cooperate with anyone.  Too bad he's the guy who did the heavy lifting
>> to make burning work, cuz we're stuck with cdrecord.
>>
>>
>>> NeroLinux could be a good alternative, but I don't feel the need to 
>>> pay for such
>>> an application, as (imo) it should be part of the operating system
>>> 'desktop-stack' or whatever the marketing einsteins would call it.
>>>
>>
>> It is--cdrecord.  If you don't like it as-is, use a GUI shell.  Pretty
>> much every graphical burner app on Linux calls cdrecord behind the
>> scenes.  I agree with the K3B and XCDRoast suggestions.
>>
>>
>>> It really all comes down to the hardware manufacturer's lack of 
>>> support, and
>>> Commercial Software Developers who perceive that the Linux Desktop 
>>> Market is
>>> simply DWARFED by the Microsoft Windows Desktop Market, and that it's not
>>> within their stock-holders (or their own) interests to support an 
>>> open system.
>>>
>>> The fact is, I don't want to use linux as a desktop if EVERYONE 
>>> else is using
>>> it, and imo, the commercialization of linux will be it's inevitable 
>>> downfall
>>> (primarily in terms of security).
>>>
>>
>> So what you're saying is that as soon as Linux is ready for the desktop
>> to your satisfaction, you'll quit using it?  That seems like a recipe
>> for frustration. :-)
>>
>> I can't see how this is a big worry--"Linux" doesn't exist in the sense
>> Microsoft Windows does.  If Xandros/Linspir/Mepis/whatever makes a bad
>> security decision, that won't affect what Debian an Slackware ship.
>> Those companies don't write most of the software--the LKML crowd and the
>> community and enterprise distros are moving toward more security, not
>> less.
>>
>> Dustin
>>
>>
>
>