[SGVLUG] Recommendations for > 100 MBbs routers

[Jess Bermudes]

Their compliance with the GPL would ;)

On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 9:31 PM, Munjal Thakkar <m00njal at gmail.com> wrote:

> Jess,
>
> You are right as this unit is a router only, and is meant to be used with
> a switch, dumb or managed. However there are wizards included to auto
> config a Soho setup easily to allow eth0 to be wan and eth1 and eth2 a
> switch. Or you can manually configure all three ports for three different
> networks, etc.
>
> The Er-x has the same wizard, which essentially makes it a really good
> router with built in switch, because it has a total of 5 ports.  Think of
> it as an off the shelf router without wireless at that point when you run
> the built in wizard. Then you add any access point of your choice and off
> you go.
>
> Example I have in production:
> 100/50mbps FiOS connection in Santa Monica at a cafe.
>
> Running an er-x with a regular UAP with 1 Poe injector powering both. Have
> a guest Network and 2 internal networks.
>
> Area is about 3500sqft (open space) with business critical applications
> running on the internal wifi. This includes delivery tablets from Uber and
> GrubHub, and a VoIp and Fax ata also for delivery orders, PoS systems, and
> some wifi ip cameras. That's right, this business runs their voice services
> on the wifi setup by the UAP. No call quality issues.
>
> Now the guests, automatically firewalled off to internal network and
> manages About 35 -55 guests simultaneously with heavy traffic during peak
> hours. Lunch weekdays and breakfast weekends. This setup has never once had
> in issue in 18 months or a power cycle. CPU on router never even breaks
> 10-15 % .
>
> If I haven't convinced you how much these devices kick ass, I don't know
> what will!
>
> On Aug 19, 2016 21:21, "Jess Bermudes" <jbermudes at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Claude,
>>
>> In case you're not familiar, the reason the EdgeRouter Lite have 3 ports
>> is because the device is only a router. Each of those jacks is meant to
>> represent a different network you're connecting together, but I think you
>> can make them behave like a switch in the GUI if you dig around. You'll
>> likely want hardware switches if you want to have more things plugged in,
>> but then you might want to start doing more sophisticated things with your
>> network in which case the dumb switches won't be enough and you'll want to
>> start looking into things like managed switches, in which case your budget
>> either has to expand or now those all-in-one router/switch combos off the
>> shelf start looking tempting again.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 8:54 PM, Munjal Thakkar <m00njal at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Claude,
>>>
>>> For your home use, the ER-X router is more than enough for your needs.
>>> It has more ports, has POE Pass through, and has been tested to do well
>>> with 400-500mbps WAN connections/throughput.
>>>
>>> The UAPs seem pricey, but honestly they are not for how they perform.
>>> Their performance and reliability matches that of competitor (*cough
>>> meraki*) APs that range $200 or more.
>>>
>>> For your setup, I suggest a ER-X router, with just 1 UAP-AC access
>>> point. This way you have a router, and the UAP-AC comes with a PoE
>>> injector. That Single injector will power the ER-X router and the UAP
>>> through the pass through port, for minimal wiring, power supplies, and so
>>> that you can remote mount the UAP-AC wherever you need to in your house for
>>> best performance (it'll be fine).
>>>
>>> I didnt watch this full video, but I think he shows how you can connect
>>> what I am describing. That is WAN MODEM>POE INJECTOR> ERX ROUTER>UAP (via
>>> ethernet)
>>>
>>> I have this setup at home, but will take a picture later today.
>>>
>>> If you go to  this route, you'll have an enterprise router, that is
>>> consumer friendly, and also enterprise Wifi, that is consumer friendly, and
>>> all very budget friendly. The ER-X is $50-60 online and so you save there,
>>> and your UAP-AC is $85 or so. Total cost is less than $150.
>>>
>>> Didn't even mention the awesome Unifi Software (free) that is available
>>> to manage the UAP. 4 SSIDs, channel scan, and flexibility to really tweak
>>> performance gains. I'll gladly setup a sample Unifi Controller for you to
>>> poke around in if you'd like. Just let me know. (no I dont work for UBNT or
>>> even own their stock).
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Munjal
>>>
>>> On Fri, Aug 19, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Claude Felizardo <cafelizardo at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ok, after going over the various responses, I see what you guys were
>>>> getting at.  It is annoying having to reconfigure an all-in-one every time
>>>> you do an update either because of new WiFi features or in my case, I need
>>>> a true gigabit router.  I did start out with individual components
>>>> originally...
>>>>
>>>> When I moved my old wifi router which I was using as an extender for
>>>> the TWC internet from the living room to the wiring closet to test with the
>>>> Giggle Fiber modem, I inadvertently caused the signal to drop in the kids
>>>> bedrooms and my daughter managed to go through 1.5 GB of data in about a
>>>> week on our shared mobile data plan before I noticed.  But now I have the
>>>> all-in-one wifi/router back in the living room with no other devices
>>>> connected to the giggle fiber feed.  I used a Wifi analyzer app and I was
>>>> amazed how quickly the signal drops out around the house and my house isn't
>>>> big at all.  Must be the walls and stuff.  I may have to get a beefier
>>>> router with stronger radios...
>>>>
>>>> So I'm looking at the ubiquity elite 3 but it only has 3 LAN ports and
>>>> I think I may need at least 2 AP's. Wow, this stuff really looks cool but
>>>> isn't this overkill for a single storey house under 2000'?  And the
>>>> individual AP's aren't cheap and I'd still need to get PoE injectors.  So
>>>> with at least 2 remote switches and a 3rd in the closet, I guess the 3-port
>>>> router could work but I'd need to pick up 2 more gigabit switches.  Or else
>>>> there's the EdgeRouter X?   Sheesh.  So you just install these AP's like
>>>> wired smoke detectors in the ceiling wherever you need them?  Hmm...
>>>>
>>>> Claude
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 17, 2016, at 9:22 PM, Dan Buthusiem <dan.buthusiem at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If that's the route you're heading, Netgear's WNDR4300 has worked well
>>>> in the number of places I've installed it. It handles DDWRT nicely, too.
>>>> Good speed and decent range. I think I last bought one for about $80. Don't
>>>> expect to get anything more than 15-20 Mbps over wifi unless you're on 5GHz
>>>> N, though that holds true for nearly all wireless hardware I've played with
>>>> in that performance tier up to 802.11N. I can't speak for AC or AD, though
>>>> 60GHz sounds like it'd be a pain to get any distance out of.
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 17, 2016 8:31 PM, "Claude Felizardo" <cafelizardo at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wow, learning about a cisco router is going to be a far bigger project
>>>>> than what I time for so I'm going to have to go with something intermediate
>>>>> that just works because the family wants something that works yesterday.
>>>>>
>>>>> To answer Jess B, while it would be nice to run third-party firmware,
>>>>> again, I need something that I won't have to keep tweaking so I'm not
>>>>> opposed to not being able to hack everything anymore.
>>>>>
>>>>> And while I like the LED indicators on the ubiquity edgemax elite 3,
>>>>> I'm also leaning toward an integrated router/switch/wifi because I've got
>>>>> so many outlet strips connected to the UPS's that it's not funny.  Having a
>>>>> console port and minimum number of ports reminds me of my Netgear RT311
>>>>> router i still have mounted on the wall in my closet.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was able to temporarily connect my desktop directly to the Giggle
>>>>> Fiber modem and run a couple speed tests and I was pleasantly surprised to
>>>>> see 230-320 Mbps down and 20-24 Mbps up at about 1 am against a couple of
>>>>> different speed testing web sites.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I'm still sitting on the fence between the TP-Link Archer C9 and
>>>>> the UTT router.   I was happy with the TL-SG108E and the manual for the UTT
>>>>> AC750GW looks pretty good with the number of features and that multi WAN
>>>>> option looks pretty neat.  The guy in the cubical next door has been pretty
>>>>> happy with his.  Both are available on Amazon for under $120.
>>>>>
>>>>> Claude
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> [ curt sections about Ciso routers as that's got to be overkill for my
>>>> needs ]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>> > On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Munjal Thakkar <m00njal at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >> +1 for the ubiquiti erlite 3. Router. You'll be amazed at how they
>>>>> perform
>>>>> >> for the cost. Google the brand, you'll find a lot on them,
>>>>> surprised you
>>>>> >> haven't heard of them.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I've switched all my equipment, my clients, and my work network
>>>>> >> infrastructure to UbNt routers and their Unifi line of work
>>>>> equipment.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Aug 16, 2016 20:34, "Jess Bermudes" <jbermudes at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> A word of warning about the TP-Link router. TP-Link jumped the gun
>>>>> on the
>>>>> >>> new FCC regulations and tried to lock down the flashing of
>>>>> third-party
>>>>> >>> firmware. While it's not impossible, it can be quite the task if
>>>>> you're new
>>>>> >>> to the firmware flashing game. I have an Archer C7 you can play
>>>>> around with
>>>>> >>> at HAK this Thursday if you want to see it. I'll probably be
>>>>> trying to
>>>>> >>> restore the original firmware as flashing OpenWRT on it was
>>>>> unsuccessful for
>>>>> >>> reasons I won't know until I open it up and connect a serial cable
>>>>> to it.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Were you looking for something specifically to run third-party
>>>>> firmware?
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:12 PM, Claude Felizardo <
>>>>> cafelizardo at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> So how much is a used Cisco pro router or a new linksys router?
>>>>> I really
>>>>> >>>> don't need to know how to configure a cisco router.  I've never
>>>>> heard of
>>>>> >>>> Ubiquiti.  The Netgear's look pretty cool but a bit too expensive.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> I have been looking at the TP-Link AC1900 Archer C9 which is
>>>>> available on
>>>>> >>>> amazon for $120 but someone told me about the UTT AC750GW that
>>>>> supports
>>>>> >>>> IPSec/PPTP VPN, detachable antennas and multiple WAN ports which
>>>>> sounds very
>>>>> >>>> interesting as it can do link aggregation or you can configure it
>>>>> to send
>>>>> >>>> outbound traffic to different ISPs based on destination or source
>>>>> IP.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> http://www.uttglobal.com
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> >>>> On Aug 16, 2016, at 2:18 PM, Christopher Hicks <
>>>>> chicks.net at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> I've had good luck with https://routerboard.com/ which supports
>>>>> 1G ports
>>>>> >>>> and has a rustic but usable web GUI.  You can get them as raw
>>>>> boards or
>>>>> >>>> integrated into rack-mountable package.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Jess Bermudes <
>>>>> jbermudes at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> I've heard a lot of praise for Ubiqiti's stuff, and have used it
>>>>> in the
>>>>> >>>>> past and agree it's lot of bang for your buck, but I'm hesitant
>>>>> to give them
>>>>> >>>>> my full support when they're not a good citizen of the open
>>>>> source world and
>>>>> >>>>> actively violate the GPL:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> http://libertybsd.net/ubiquiti/
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 9:34 PM, Dan Buthusiem <
>>>>> dan.buthusiem at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> SmallNetBuilder's review of Ubiquiti's EdgeRouter Lite sold me
>>>>> on it,
>>>>> >>>>>> since it was able to hold 950 Mbps per port at a $100 price
>>>>> point. My
>>>>> >>>>>> Netgears aren't supposed to be able to hold much more than
>>>>> about 500 Mbps
>>>>> >>>>>> per port WAN to LAN, so I only use them as APs. It seems WiFi
>>>>> goes obsolete
>>>>> >>>>>> much faster than routers and switches, which is why I keep the
>>>>> access points
>>>>> >>>>>> as separate boxes from the rest of my network - having to take
>>>>> down my
>>>>> >>>>>> entire network for a different wireless box is annoying.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> I've got a dual WAN router I'm due to migrate off of soon,
>>>>> since it's
>>>>> >>>>>> nearing its EOL. If you'd like to borrow the ErLite3, I've got
>>>>> a spare you
>>>>> >>>>>> can play with for a bit. I haven't noticed anything else that
>>>>> beats it for
>>>>> >>>>>> its price point. Their Unifi APs look very tempting, too.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> As far as your modem question, there's nothing you should need
>>>>> to tune.
>>>>> >>>>>> I would look into its statistics page to see your speed
>>>>> profile, negotiated
>>>>> >>>>>> rate (the fastest speed your modem can manage to the node,
>>>>> based on line
>>>>> >>>>>> conditions), and your attenuation / noise. This way, you'll be
>>>>> able to see
>>>>> >>>>>> if your speed issues are due to poor line conditions or possible
>>>>> >>>>>> oversubscription of the node.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> Dan
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 3:54 PM, Claude Felizardo
>>>>> >>>>>>> <cafelizardo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>> The TimeWarner bundle promo ended so the rate went up so I
>>>>> decided
>>>>> >>>>>>>> to
>>>>> >>>>>>>> give Giggle Fiber a try.  That's giggle with an I, not two
>>>>> O's.
>>>>> >>>>>>>> They
>>>>> >>>>>>>> bought out Champion cable in Arcadia/Monrovia so it's fiber
>>>>> to a
>>>>> >>>>>>>> node
>>>>> >>>>>>>> somewhere in the the neighborhood then coax to your home.
>>>>> With TWC
>>>>> >>>>>>>> I
>>>>> >>>>>>>> was getting 80-90 Mbps down and 10 Mbps up, obviously capped
>>>>> for
>>>>> >>>>>>>> what
>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was paying but we'd get drop outs constantly and the speeds
>>>>> would
>>>>> >>>>>>>> vary so much depending on time of day.  Giggle claims on
>>>>> their web
>>>>> >>>>>>>> site that most users get over 300 and when I talked to them
>>>>> last
>>>>> >>>>>>>> year,
>>>>> >>>>>>>> they said because they do not offer cable TV and had fewer
>>>>> >>>>>>>> subscribers
>>>>> >>>>>>>> this meant they had plenty of capacity.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> I had the installer pull a brand new cable and run it to my
>>>>> wiring
>>>>> >>>>>>>> closet because I was keeping TWC for TV programming and phone
>>>>> for
>>>>> >>>>>>>> now
>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- will try asterisk so Paul's talk was timely.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Using Giggle, the upload is hitting 20 Mbps up but down is
>>>>> less than
>>>>> >>>>>>>> TWC at around 50-70 Mbps which is a far cry from 200 Mbps so
>>>>> I was
>>>>> >>>>>>>> disappointed.  Now most of my equipment is 10/100 with cat5
>>>>> home run
>>>>> >>>>>>>> to a wiring closet where I have the routers installed (TWC and
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Giggle)
>>>>> >>>>>>>> which can then connect to a switch in the closet then to
>>>>> various
>>>>> >>>>>>>> drops
>>>>> >>>>>>>> in the house including two with switches because I have more
>>>>> >>>>>>>> equipment
>>>>> >>>>>>>> at those locations.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> I did upgrade one of the switches to a TP-Link SG108E which
>>>>> is an
>>>>> >>>>>>>> 8-port 10/100/1000 smart (web) switch with speed indicator
>>>>> LEDs
>>>>> >>>>>>>> (10/100/1000).  It has a menu option to test the connections
>>>>> and it
>>>>> >>>>>>>> will report cable lengths in meters as well as confirm
>>>>> connection
>>>>> >>>>>>>> speed.  Now the newest router I have is a TP-Link WDR3600
>>>>> with N600
>>>>> >>>>>>>> or
>>>>> >>>>>>>> an older Netgear WNR200 both of which I was using when I
>>>>> still had
>>>>> >>>>>>>> DSL.   Both have 4 gigabit ports but no indicators lights.
>>>>> Measured
>>>>> >>>>>>>> cable distance from remote switch to closet is 18m which is
>>>>> about
>>>>> >>>>>>>> what
>>>>> >>>>>>>> I expected.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> For testing WiFi, the only AC device we haver is my son's
>>>>> >>>>>>>> smartphone,
>>>>> >>>>>>>> everything else is G or N speed.  For wired devices, the only
>>>>> thing
>>>>> >>>>>>>> where we could run some kind of speed test was the Xbox One
>>>>> and the
>>>>> >>>>>>>> best speed we saw was 140 Mbs down and that was when we
>>>>> connecting
>>>>> >>>>>>>> the
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Xbox directly to the modem and cycle power so it will give up
>>>>> an IP.
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Otherwise going through the WDR3600, we're getting usually
>>>>> slower
>>>>> >>>>>>>> than
>>>>> >>>>>>>> TWC for download but upload is much better which will be good
>>>>> for
>>>>> >>>>>>>> trying to backup to the cloud.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Now when I ordered Giggle Fiber, they suggested I get at
>>>>> least an
>>>>> >>>>>>>> AC1900 router, the installer pretty much said the same.  I
>>>>> could see
>>>>> >>>>>>>> doing that if we had more AC devices but since most of our
>>>>> equipment
>>>>> >>>>>>>> is only N speed, I was hoping that my wired computers would
>>>>> see a
>>>>> >>>>>>>> nice
>>>>> >>>>>>>> speed increase but I'm wondering if my older router just
>>>>> can't push
>>>>> >>>>>>>> the data fast enough.  Is this really the case?  The TWC
>>>>> rented
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Arris
>>>>> >>>>>>>> router has 4 gigabit ports and is doing better than the older
>>>>> >>>>>>>> router.
>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have not tried the WNR2000 yet because the specs say its
>>>>> only
>>>>> >>>>>>>> capable of N300 wireless.
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> So does anyone have suggestions for replacing my old router?
>>>>> I may
>>>>> >>>>>>>> need to pick up another gigabit switch for the other room if
>>>>> >>>>>>>> replacing
>>>>> >>>>>>>> the router makes a difference. And the speeds has seemed to
>>>>> get
>>>>> >>>>>>>> better
>>>>> >>>>>>>> since the first day - do modems need to be tuned?
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>> Claude
>>>>> >>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
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