[SGVLUG] ATT DSL Gateway choices, which gateway do you like?

Dan Buthusiem dan.buthusiem at gmail.com
Tue Aug 14 15:07:00 PDT 2012


Bridging only half configured (didn't actually work) on the 2701 because
the firmware was terrible. Trust me, if it's ADSL and I couldn't get it to
work, then it was bad. Worked fine with NAT, and nothing Level 1 support
could read to me over the phone after two 2 hour calls could make
transparent bridging work.

For bridging from DSL (ATM - which autoconfigures from AT&T's DSLAM if you
have VPI 0, VCI 35) just uses the modem for unencapsulating the ATM frames
into an ethernet packet that your copper ethernet router can use. Once you
can pull that off with 1 IP, you can throw a switch on it to add more
routers and grab more IPs (depending on your router's capabilities).
U-Verse over POTS copper is VDSL, but those modems are still somewhat rare
here in the US, along with being expensive (Actiontek for $100+ is too
much, and I don't like their firmware, either). Fet a VDSL2 capable modem,
set it for bridging, and use whatever you like for routing (as long as
you're not buying their TV and VoIP service, as they're tightly integrated
into the 2Wire gateway. You can probably hack the network config to make it
work, but it's going to be pain).

As for Charter's DOCSIS 3 service, I haven't bothered with swapping out the
Motorola Ubee they gave us, but I've read quite a bit that off the shelf
boxes were able to handle it better than the Ubee. The only thing is
getting it provisioned properly, as they've been known to botch the config
on their own boxes. I'm happy with the service I've been getting, since the
burstable downstream rates (I wish my upstream worked that way) have been
over 80 Mbit down on a 30 Mbit profile. I can sustain 45 Mbit for a decent
amount. They are a bit stingy on the upstream, but what can you do.
On Aug 14, 2012 2:30 PM, "Doug" <dougvargas at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I recently tried the isp Megapath at the office, we ended up switching
> back to att because we're colocating the server and are SLIGHTLY cheaper,
> but megapath was awesome, great customer service, they give you total
> choice in your equipment, and even though their dsl is rented through a
> telco they'll get you faster speeds than what the telco offers. Highly
> recommended.
>  http://www.megapath.com/data/
>
> Eric Gillingham <gillingham at bikezen.net> wrote:
>
> >Another FYI about internet options and locking you in to products, I'm
> >canceling my charter cable TV and was shopping around for pure
> >internet options, looks like to take advantage of Charters new
> >faster/cheaper internet tiers you HAVE to use their modem, so my 4
> >month old DOCIS 3.0 modem would be wasted, luckily I can keep it and
> >deal with slower speeds. Looks like both our options are trying to
> >lock people into leasing/buying equipment through them.
> >
> >- Eric
> >
> >On Tue, Aug 14, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Doug <dougvargas at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >> What's weird about att uverse is that they wouldn't tell me what dsl
> spec they used to connect, I'm sure I could have found out eventually, but
> why waste your time with a company that tries to lock you in to it's own
> crappy products? And that's good to know about the lines, I'll get you the
> levels in a few.
> >>
> >> Dan Buthusiem <dan.buthusiem at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Oh, and Doug, just buy a cheapie single port ADSL2+ modem and put it
> into
> >>>bridge mode. Make sure you set the DSL config to VPI 0 / VCI 35, then
> use
> >>>the router of your choice. 2Wire equipment doesn't seem to be made with
> the
> >>>end user's needs in mind. If you're a regular home user, it'll suffice.
> If
> >>>you're a nerd (hint: if you're on our list, you probably resemble that
> >>>description - one of us, one of us), you'll learn to hate them the more
> you
> >>>try to push it.
> >>>On Aug 13, 2012 2:58 PM, "Dan Buthusiem" <dan.buthusiem at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I deal with them regularly, and anything I haven't learned from their
> >>>> Level 2 techs, I got from digging through forums, wikipedia links,
> and over
> >>>> 5 years of trial and error at work. Glad I could be of service. If
> Matti
> >>>> still needs a spare modem, I still have it ready to lend. Also, I'm
> happy
> >>>> to answer any other questions if anyone has them. :)
> >>>>
> >>>> - Dan B.
> >>>> On Aug 13, 2012 2:12 PM, "Matthew Campbell" <dvdmatt at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Nice explanation Dan, great support too.  I wish they would take a
> lesson
> >>>>> from you!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We all really appreciate useful responses like this one from our
> >>>>> friends.  This really is a great LUG.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Matt
> >>>>>  On Aug 13, 2012 8:10 AM, "Dan Buthusiem" <dan.buthusiem at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Doug, can you get me your line levels? In the usual screens for that
> >>>>>> info, there should be something labeled "_____ path" with either
> >>>>>> 'interleaved' or 'fast' as a value. Fast path gives you lower pings
> >>>>>> (10-20ms), but is less resilient against noise. Interleaved can
> handle
> >>>>>> noisier lines, at a cost of having a higher ping (45-70ms). My
> guess is the
> >>>>>> tech changed your config in the DSLAM to compensate for a
> deteriorating
> >>>>>> line. A Level 2 tech can explain it to you if you're savvy enough
> to hold
> >>>>>> on to all the frequency explanations. You can have the tech
> remotely change
> >>>>>> you back to fast path if you're on interleaved, but if you start
> having
> >>>>>> sync problems, you'll have to go back.
> >>>>>> On Aug 13, 2012 1:28 AM, "Doug" <dougvargas at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ugh story of my life...I USED to have under 10ms ping to my
> favorite
> >>>>>>> counter strike server, att came out and made "repairs" and now I'm
> lucky if
> >>>>>>> I get 50, it's a great quantitative measurement of how much they
> suck lol.
> >>>>>>> Not to mention that their static ip service comes with a router
> THAT WON'T
> >>>>>>> ROUTE IP ADDRESSES. I'm going to be switching isps, my deepest
> sympathies
> >>>>>>> that you can't :(
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Matthew Campbell <dvdmatt at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> >I have uVerse and POTS.  They never asked me to drop one for the
> other.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >I had a 6Mbit connection for years, then AT&T 'upgraded' wiring
> in our
> >>>>>>> >neighborhood and my rate dropped to 2.  I called, I complained, I
> >>>>>>> ranted
> >>>>>>> >and raved and they insisted that I had never had better than 2 and
> >>>>>>> that I
> >>>>>>> >should go away.  I ended up having to cut the wire to my house and
> >>>>>>> hook the
> >>>>>>> >modem up outside to show them the poor rate.  They came out and
> fixed
> >>>>>>> it,
> >>>>>>> >back to 6Mb/s finally!  Four weeks later it dropped back to 2.  I
> >>>>>>> ranted
> >>>>>>> >and raved and they eventually fixed it.  Four months later it
> dropped
> >>>>>>> >again.  This time they fixed it in 48 hours.  All in all, just
> >>>>>>> counting the
> >>>>>>> >hours I have logged I have spent 92 unpaid hours on the phone
> with AT&T
> >>>>>>> >sorting out their incorrect billing or crappy service over the
> last 2
> >>>>>>> years.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >They are the worst company I have ever had the misfortune to deal
> with.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >And they have the government backed monopoly in my neighborhood,
> no
> >>>>>>> way to
> >>>>>>> >change to anything else.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >Matt
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >P.S.  In their favor their billing was never off more than $500
> and
> >>>>>>> they
> >>>>>>> >didn't cut my service more than twice due to their own internal
> billing
> >>>>>>> >mistakes.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >---------
> >>>>>>> >*Matthew Campbell*
> >>>>>>> >Storage Solution Consultant
> >>>>>>> >Storage Design and Engineering
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >*Kaiser Permanente*
> >>>>>>> >IMG-Systems Integration
> >>>>>>> >99 S. Oakland
> >>>>>>> >Pasadena, CA 91101
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >626-564-7228 (office)
> >>>>>>> >8-338-7228 (tie-line)
> >>>>>>> >818-314-9897 (mobile phone)
> >>>>>>> >Green Center 3-North, 031W29
> >>>>>>> >---------
> >>>>>>> >*kp.org/thrive*
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Scott Packard <
> spackard at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> >> > Just make sure you still have a regular copper drop in the
> event
> >>>>>>> of an
> >>>>>>> >> emergency. Sure, the VoIP gateway has a hefty battery backup,
> but I
> >>>>>>> still
> >>>>>>> >> prefer having an old fashioned phone line just in case (911
> doesn't
> >>>>>>> require
> >>>>>>> >> a phone service account with telco, just a working jack with
> dial
> >>>>>>> tone).
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> You can't.  If you sign up for Uverse they force you off of
> POTS.
> >>>>>>> >> I've been there, tried that.  Fought that.  Wrote letters.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> Regards, Scott
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> On Sun, Aug 12, 2012 at 5:28 PM, Dan Buthusiem <
> >>>>>>> dan.buthusiem at gmail.com>wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>> Just make sure you still have a regular copper drop in the
> event of
> >>>>>>> an
> >>>>>>> >>> emergency. Sure, the VoIP gateway has a hefty battery backup,
> but I
> >>>>>>> still
> >>>>>>> >>> prefer having an old fashioned phone line just in case (911
> doesn't
> >>>>>>> require
> >>>>>>> >>> a phone service account with telco, just a working jack with
> dial
> >>>>>>> tone).
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
>
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