[SGVLUG] [OT]Hybrids and trains (was fuel prices and the dollar)

[Dan Kegel]

On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 3:21 AM, Christopher Smith <cbsmith at gmail.com> wrote:
> David Lawyer wrote:
>> I just don't think that there is any other source of energy that's
>> feasible.  I think we've underestimated the amount of embodied fuel
>> energy it takes to make alternative types of energy such as solar,
>> biofuels, etc.  For the case of solar, see
>> http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:5ND_gDdBnTwJ:www.nps.edu/drmi/docs/DRMI%2520Working%2520Paper%252006-02.pdf+photo-voltaics+%22working+paper%22+navy&amp;hl=en&amp;ct=clnk&amp;cd=1&amp;gl=us&amp;ie=UTF-8
>> (WORKING PAPER SERIES 2006/02 Photo-voltaics Navy)
>
> ... Photovoltaics seem like
> they are making slow but steady progress along those lines, and simpler
> photothermal solutions have fairly low energy costs.

David, thanks for the interesting link.  Too many people assume that
photovoltaic is a panacea.   It is a great technology, but the costs
still need to come down, and the hidden environmental costs of
producing the cells may be high.  (All fixable eventually perhaps;
the current mass enthusiasm for these systems is good even if
somewhat irrational, because it provides the economic incentive to
solve the hard problems.)

As Chris suggests, photothermal systems
are currently a better candidate for massive deployment, and are
currently being deployed somewhat massively :-) by e.g. our own PGE, see
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/story?id=45707

The problem of getting the electricity efficiently from the desert to
the users is a big one.  As you pointed out, transmission losses
are already heavy even with nearby power plants.  The boffins are
aware of this, and there is work being done on making long-range
powerlines much more efficient (e.g. by using direct rather than
alternating current).

Perhaps the real answer is... SOLAR STEAM TRAINS!!!!
http://solarsteamtrain.com
- Dan