[SGVLUG] Plone

[Dustin]

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005, Rich Pinder wrote:

Is there any way you can get your mailer to quote in some sort of normal
">>>" sort of way?  I'm starting to lose who wrote which paragraph....

> Test some more - go to your site, but dont log in.  The go all the way up
> to the root Zope object...log in there as admin... then use the log out
> available up on the pulldown... and it should work fine.  Then..testing the
> other way...login to Plone only... then log out - should work fine.

OK, yes, if I just use one or the other, then it does log me out.  I was
logged in both places when I was testing.  It never got me into trouble
with the other systems so it didn't even occur to me not to do it that
way.

> Plone uses GroupUserFolder - and I think it best that if you're using a
> Plone site, add users/groups there  (and ferget the ZMI). 

Fine with me.  I'd originally thought the ZMI was for meta-superuser type 
accounts with (so it appears) potential control of many different websites 
and other Zope Stuff(TM).  It was after the logout stuff that I started 
suspecting (wrongly) that maybe they were the same accounts.

>  Oh--my impression is that Zope is actually handling the accounts, not
> Plone, so that one administers a Plone site through the Zope management
> interface.  Is that correct?
> 
> Thats doable.  But you probably only want to create a new 'MySmartUser'
> group, and define whatever roles that this group needs

OK, so I shouldn't expect a canned but already-set-up set of groups like 
Mambo, but rather a roll-your-own system like PHPWebSite?

OK, I just created a group now, and I see that the access permissions are
what it calls roles (you know, Zope tends to want to use it's own special
terminology and it causes extra confusion) and they are a relatively fixed
list.  So this shouldn't be too confusing to use--once I have granted
reasonable permissions to my own user and verified that it works, I can
make this site public either directly or through apache.

> ...and then stay away
> from messing with individual permissions on objects whenever possible.

Fear not.  Having no clue as to the internal structure of anything,
touching individual objects would be a last resort.  I wouldn't know what
else calls them, reuses them, or otherwise depends on them, but it's an
easy guess that this is a good way to either break the system or just
break security.

> ...I
> was just sayin true 'ADMIN' means open field day to mess with the
> site...something others should not have.

I wasn't asking if I could set it up that way, I was asking if it already
IS that way.  Obviously I was incorrect, and Plone and Zope have their own
separate account notions.  That actually makes me feel better since the
ZMI has access to stuff that could be shared with many websites and
whatnot and doesn't really make sense to give to a Plone user.

>  No, making that automatic is the last thing I want.  I just would like the
> option to have the server email me that "New account XXX has been
> created", as for example Mambo does by default.  It's easier to notice
> that someone needs bumping up that way.
> 
> Two quick things - one you may know...other  I just heard today.
> Again..you say  'Zope'  here - but I think you're talking Plone...

I don't know where you're talking about, but errors on my part are very 
likely.  But I probably wrote it when I thought Zope was doing all of 
Plone's user account manipulation, which makes the confusion much worse.

> ...and the
> next release of Plone  (v2.1... within 8 wks) is said to have GREAT speed
> increases.  (i know.... 'great' may not be a quantifiable term for you
> Caltech folks 1) - but they're all quite excited about that.

Certainly a good thing, but I haven't yet had trouble running Zope+Plone
here on my little ol' AthlonXP desktop with a mere half gig of memory
(besides, with just DSL rather than a commercial pipe the problems would
probably be desktop glitches when someone hits the sight rather than
perceptible slowing for the person hitting it).  I'll let you know when I
have some reason to have an opinion, but I wouldn't be surprised to find
that the rumors of Zope's bad performance are greatly exaggerated.  Or,
probably more likely, that the hardware has caught up and in the meantime
competing systems have gotten fatter as well.

The same thing seems to have happened to X-Windows: by modern standards it
doesn't seem to be bloated after all.

> BID thing - out of the box Zope is runnin in Debug mode.  And its WAY
> slow.  Useful for some things - but needs to be turned off on productions
> sites (and probably should be turned off for your tests if performance is
> an issue..and you've installed it on some decent hardware.)  Set in the
> zope config file  zope.conf

Yow, I didn't know about that.  Gosh, I wonder how many people out there 
are unwittingly running in debug mode and cursing the performance?

Is debug mode likely to produce any error messages that will help me?  
I'm guessing no unless I were developing actual Zope objects, which seems
rather unlikely this lifetime.

Dustin