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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Hi Edgar,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>You’re definitely right about the attitude aspect, but
that’s something that can be changed with time and effort. When it
comes down to it how many of those employees have a computer at home that they purchased/installed/use
as opposed to that same percentage in the workforce 5 years ago? 10?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'>Matt<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";
color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span
style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>
sgvlug-bounces@sgvlug.net [mailto:sgvlug-bounces@sgvlug.net] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Edgar
Garrobo<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 26, 2009 1:18 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> SGVLUG Discussion List.<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [SGVLUG] What is a Linux Admin? What should I learn/know?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>- The workforce of today is
more computer savvy than that of 20 years ago,<br>
there are employees not employed as sysadmins who know how to troubleshoot<br>
applications in Windows.<br>
<br>
<br>
If this applies to your company, you are a very fortunate man Matt. I've
worked at about 6 companies, large and small, without ever seeing such
users. Most non-IT employees I've worked with have an attitude similar to
"I don't know what's wrong, and I don't want to know. I just want it
fixed."<br>
<br>
I think it's rather uncommon for a company to be able to accept a 24 hour
turnaround on problems. Business continuity is what will keep the
sysadmin position around in my opinion. I'm more concerned that the
salary will start to decrease as the sysadmin is seen as more of a commodity.<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Matt Campbell <<a
href="mailto:dvdmatt@gmail.com">dvdmatt@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal>I don't know Rae, I would almost be so bold as to say
that the sysadmin's<br>
days are numbered.<br>
<br>
As a group they are the most highly paid in most companies outside of<br>
management and are thus prime targets in this economy. My company for<br>
example has laid off 4 syadmins in the last 6 months and is looking to<br>
outsource support for any remaining computer needs and eliminate the<br>
department entirely.<br>
<br>
Unfortunately when they polled their sysadmins and were told that this was a<br>
'bad idea' they discounted that feedback as 'sour grapes'.<br>
<br>
I think this move is fraught with peril, but will probably work for this<br>
company. If you view IT support and help desk services as a perk for your<br>
employees and take the pragmatic view that they will find some way to<br>
soldier on without support then eliminating IT could even be classified as a<br>
good business decision. At least in the short run....<br>
<br>
There are so many reasons that this is a Bad Idea that my mind boggles, but<br>
I can sit back as Devil's advocate and see that it just may work.<br>
<br>
- The workforce of today is more computer savvy than that of 20 years ago,<br>
there are employees not employed as sysadmins who know how to troubleshoot<br>
applications in Windows.<br>
<br>
- The computers of today are really plug and play, any hardware is supported<br>
under distributer warranty for 3 years, and then the PC has been depreciated<br>
and can be replaced cheaply.<br>
<br>
- Once the server infrastructure is configured and installed for a cube farm<br>
it takes little day to day maintenance other than adding or removing a user.<br>
This function can be performed from abroad for cheap as long as 24 hour turn<br>
around is acceptable.<br>
<br>
- Retaining a local IT firm for the once a quarter emergency when something<br>
really does crash is a hell of a lot cheaper than paying an IT staff to<br>
perform help desk operations and make your employees feel warm and fuzzy.<br>
<br>
Now playing Devil's advocate to Devil's advocate you have issues of employee<br>
morale, frustration and efficiency that need to be overcome, but for a mil a<br>
year in IT salary savings this can be addressed with a bonus office party<br>
with cake once a month... ;)<br>
<span style='color:#888888'><br>
Matt</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: <a href="mailto:sgvlug-bounces@sgvlug.net">sgvlug-bounces@sgvlug.net</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:sgvlug-bounces@sgvlug.net">sgvlug-bounces@sgvlug.net</a>]
On Behalf<br>
Of Rae Yip<br>
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 9:11 AM<br>
To: SGVLUG Discussion List.<br>
Subject: Re: [SGVLUG] What is a Linux Admin? What should I learn/know?<br>
<br>
One of the other more valuable certifications is the RHCE. Even if you<br>
don't plan on running RedHat later, it gives you a good grounding of<br>
the basics of installing Linux and configuring various services, as<br>
well as recovering from various failures.<br>
<br>
There are many levels of system administration, but in general you<br>
should be eventually prepared to deal with hardware failures, network<br>
security intrusions, system installs and upgrades, config problems,<br>
software compilation and performance problems. This can be in the<br>
middle of the night while a CTO or other executive is breathing down<br>
your neck.<br>
<br>
Essentially the sysadmin is a jack (or jill) of all trades, which can<br>
make the job quite fun, but usually also means there endless number of<br>
tasks to deal with. The key skillset is not to be daunted by a<br>
situation you haven't run into; a corollary is a willingness (and<br>
knack) to sift through reams of documentation.<br>
<br>
The exact specifics of which flavour of Unix, scripting language, and<br>
admin tools you are familiar with are less important as long as you<br>
can deal with the learning curve. Of course, this curve is hard to<br>
test in an interview, so you'll probably be tested in-depth on what<br>
you claim to know. Falling short on a topic you claim to be an expert<br>
on in your resume is a no-no.<br>
<br>
Sysadmining isn't for everyone. Another useful but often ignored<br>
"skill" is an eagerness to help people. I would say that anyone who's<br>
good at the other stuff but doesn't have this quality should pick a<br>
different job (such as Performance or QA engineer).<br>
<br>
As Matti said, the SAGE website gives a basic progression of the<br>
grades of sysadmins, which may be helpful for figuring out how to<br>
further your career if you already are one.<br>
<br>
-Rae.<br>
<br>
P.S. I find it interesting to speculate why all this is encapsulated<br>
in one job, and not shared by group with divided jobs. This also helps<br>
understand why sysadmining will be around as a career for a while yet.<br>
<br>
On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 4:32 PM, matti <<a
href="mailto:mathew_2000@yahoo.com">mathew_2000@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> --- Question from Edgar ---<br>
> [..]<br>
><br>
> Also, for one of the next LUG meetings, I<br>
> have a topic that is of interest to me and<br>
> hopefully some others might think it's<br>
> worth discussing. I see a lot of jobs out<br>
> there that are for Linux Admins. I manage<br>
> several Linux servers here (two CentOS and<br>
> one OpenSUSE) but I don't think I'd consider<br>
> myself a Linux admin. So my question is,<br>
> what should be considered a Linux Admin?<br>
> What skillset, what specific experience<br>
> should one have, what tools should one<br>
> be familiar with.<br>
><br>
> Should they know true UNIX (AIX, Solaris,<br>
> or HP/UX)? I hope this isn't too trite for the group.<br>
><br>
> Thanks!<br>
><br>
> Edgar Garrobo<br>
><br>
> --- please feel free to add your input ---<br>
><br>
> Hi, here's my "quick" reply<br>
><br>
><br>
> Linux Admin<br>
> --------------<br>
><br>
> What is a Linux Admin?<br>
> -------------------------<br>
><br>
> It's a really good question.<br>
><br>
> Many people are linux admins, and are actually<br>
> hired or have job titles which do not say<br>
> linux/unix/other OS admins.<br>
><br>
> Typically a system admin is responsible<br>
> for the availability and maintenance of<br>
> a computer system and the applications<br>
> on that system. Backups and recovery<br>
> are a part of that.<br>
><br>
> OH, and you may also be a bit of a<br>
> network admin. ( need to know about<br>
> routers their protocols and the like.. )<br>
><br>
> WOW, that's a LOT of stuff you need to know.<br>
> Seriously.<br>
><br>
> Normally Linux/Unix admins know some programming<br>
> skills to help them do their admin work.<br>
> ( shell scripts, perl, python, etc... )<br>
><br>
> That typically differentiates linux/unix<br>
> admins from Windows Admins ( tho imho<br>
> good windows admins should know how to<br>
> program also. )<br>
><br>
> OH! You MUST know the command line.<br>
> ( I almost forgot to mention this one..<br>
> as it seems like a standard expectation<br>
> for me ) AND imho "vi"/"vim".<br>
><br>
> Why "vi"/"vim"? - while you may like other<br>
> editors better, it seems that just about<br>
> every unix/linux installation has it installed.<br>
><br>
> I guess the bottom line is you know you<br>
> are a linux admin IF you get hired as a<br>
> linux/unix admin.<br>
><br>
> Normally the big one employers are looking<br>
> for is EXPERIENCE. ( tho you maybe able to<br>
> find some good entry level jobs )<br>
><br>
> WHAT to know? That will depend on what your<br>
> employer needs. SAMBA? Apache? Sendmail?<br>
> Postfix? mSQL? Postgres? SANs? VMs? Wireless?<br>
> PHP? .. the list goes on..<br>
><br>
> The best way to get an idea is to look at<br>
> the job listings for the positions you<br>
> are interested in.<br>
><br>
> I would recommend also to do the course<br>
> work for the various certifications out<br>
> there, and perhaps even taking the tests.<br>
><br>
><br>
> What about other Unixes/*nixes?<br>
> ----------------------------------<br>
><br>
> Well, if you KNOW all the variants of Linux<br>
> that's ALREADY a lot! Seriously.<br>
><br>
> However some employers also want you to<br>
> know HP-UX, solaris, Open-Solaris, BSD,<br>
> AIX,... ( hint checkout <a href="http://uuasc.org" target="_blank">uuasc.org</a>
)<br>
><br>
> Personally I think we should see Linux<br>
> and the other open source OSes do better<br>
> in the long term vs the closed versions.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> WAIT what about Windows?<br>
> --------------------------<br>
><br>
> Well, you should know those systems well<br>
> enough also, as some admin jobs require<br>
> you to at least work with window clients.<br>
> ( i.e. SAMBA, email clients - outlook, .. )<br>
><br>
><br>
> Well, honestly the more you know the<br>
> better it is.<br>
><br>
> OF course the problem is that things<br>
> are always changing a bit and that you<br>
> have limited TIME.<br>
><br>
><br>
> What about Certification?<br>
> --------------------------<br>
><br>
> Well, that's another good question...<br>
> in general depends on the employer,<br>
> some require certification. Others don't.<br>
><br>
> Again watch the job postings.<br>
><br>
> In general the Cisco ones are more valued<br>
> than say the Microsoft ones.<br>
><br>
> best<br>
> matti<br>
><br>
><br>
> Resources:<br>
><br>
> League of Professional System Admins<br>
> <a href="http://lopsa.org/" target="_blank">http://lopsa.org/</a><br>
><br>
> SAGE, a USENIX Special Interest Group<br>
> look around they should have a good<br>
> descript of different levels of system<br>
> admins:<br>
> <a href="http://www.sage.org/" target="_blank">http://www.sage.org/</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><o:p></o:p></p>
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