[SGVLUG] recruiters recruiters recruiters selling your body

[Christopher Smith]

Note that this is really talking about "outside recruiters". Unless it
is a *really* small company you are dealing with, even if there is no
"outside recruiter", there is an "inside recruiter" involved. So just
do a s/recruiter/outside recruiter/ on this and Matt's e-mail. ;-)

On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 1:30 PM, matti <mathew_2000 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Thus, you will cost the company MORE than what you
> would otherwise. ( Note to maximize their profits the
> recruiter will try to maximize your salary )

While they certainly *can* cost the company more than otherwise, good
recruiters are cost effective for employers, because they save them
time and resources that would have to be spent filling a position. You
*aren't* really more expensive unless the employer was going to look
at you, and only you, for the position, and you were lying with baited
breath for the moment they opened the position.

> You can get paid several ways
> W2, 1099, C2C
>
> Understand them. Each has significant tax implications, and
> determines how you get paid and your job protections.

Very good advice. When I came down from Canada, I was ignorant of the
details, and it ended up creating some really unfortunate "surprises".

> 2) Often they do NOT really care about what type of company
> or company environment you want to work in.

While very true, if you are worried that your recruiter is like that,
stop worrying about it. Either you don't work with them, or you trust
they actually are looking for a good fit. This isn't a "you deserve
better" argument. This is a "they are costing you" argument. If they
aren't looking for a good fit, they are indeed costing you and their
clients time and money.

> Ever wonder why some companies have so many openings?

While there is such thing as a crappy place to work, I don't think
"bad work environment" is the primary culprit. There are places where
only certain people are going to fit in, which can be a factor, but
overwhelmingly what I see are companies that are trying to hire "dream
candidates" only. In most cases, the way they are set up, it actually
doesn't make sense for them to hire a less than superlative candidate.
It's kind of a sick joke really. I mean, as an employer, if a dream
candidate walked in looking for a job, I'd *create* a position if I
had to. You only need to create an open position when you need someone
with the right talents more than you need the salary. Unfortunately,
they need to have the open positions listed so that a "dream
candidate" will find them.

> 3) Often you may have as good if not a better inside track
> to a company than the recruiter who is wanting to put in you there.

As I've moved along in my career, this has increasingly been true.
Talk to your recruiter about it. Let them know the places where you
have an inside track, so they know not to waste their time. Again, a
good recruiter will be focused on the opportunities that won't find
themselves, because otherwise they can't justify their existence.

> IF you want to try something new, HURRY up and
> pickup your skill set as quickly as possible.
> ( i.e. get the right skill set )

You said this in terms of multi-year time scales, and I think you are
correct about that, but you should also have a great deal of urgency
in the short term. It is becoming apparent that the tech industry's
"bubble" is drawing to a close: the music is about to stop in the game
of musical chairs. Get yourself in to the right position to succeed
*now*, because every day that goes by makes your odds longer. Finding
a job in November/December is ridiculously hard, and while January is
traditionally the best time to look for a position, I think we've got
good odds of this January being worse than any in recent memory.

> 6) Still need experience/skills
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> Yes, this is still a big challenge for people getting into
> the tech field ( please see previous posts on this subject. )

My main advice here is if you experience/skills are your weak spot,
try to pick a relatively new technology that is up and coming. It kind
of levels the playing field. If it is new, you'll have about as much
experience/skill as anyone else.

> 7) Always ask about compensation ranges
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Recruiters know what their client is looking to pay.
> Ask them. It will give you an idea of if the company
> is serious or not. Yes, things do DOE ( Depending
> On Experience ) but the client should still have some
> expectations on the compensation. IF it is far too low
> you know something screwy is going on.
> ( I've seen a CL ad for an super experienced IT manager
> for $50K/year in LA.. they had no clue about how
> much more the person could get. )

I always hate talking to employers about compensation until I know
enough about the job and they know enough about me that salary is the
last remaining issue for both parties to make a decision. One of the
joys with recruiters is I feel totally comfortable putting
compensation at the front of the conversation. It's great.

> You really want to control who is submitting your resume,
> and you want to be cautious about submitting it to too many
> places.

This. keep a scoreboard with who sent your resume where. Insist that
recruiters clear it with you before sending your resume to a new
client. Some will want exclusive relationships, and will use the
resume overlap issue as an excuse for doing so. Exclusives can make
sense (if you have confidence they are the best recruiter for you),
but they are still competing with *you* to find a position, so insist
on control of resume distribution.

> So, the question remains.. Are recruiters worth it???

The correct answer is "YMMV". ;-)

> Thoughts on what to look for in a recruiter?

Someone who knows who is hiring and what they are looking for better
than you. They should be able to tell you what going rates are and who
has open positions for any particular profile you might present to
employers, and they should have it at their finger tips. They should
be able to tell you places that are likely going to have layoffs soon.
They should be able to tell you what the work environment is like for
places that aren't even their clients. All this should be instant, not
"I'll have to look it up".

Someone who takes the time to figure out who you are and what kind of
employer is going to most benefit from having you.

Don't worry about them being nice guys. Great recruiters are generally
sharks. Just worry about them being *honest* (which is not the same
thing). If they lie to you, they'll lie to their clients. You don't
want that. I know at a recruiter who looked at me (as an employer)
point blank and said, "I'll take you on at that rate, but between you
and me, you are going to be at the bottom of my priority list because
other employers are offering me more." When I was looking for a job, I
phoned him up. ;-)

-- 
Chris