[SGVLUG] Help spread the word

[John Jefferson Lowry IV]

It is funny that you would mention lobbyism. Lawrence Lessig, the guy that
basically came up with Creative Commons, has decided to move on from IP
reform to the heart of the matter, which is political reform. He feel, and I
am paraphrasing A LOT, that he has gone as far as he can go with IP reform
until the whole process of decision making is reformed.

On 6/21/07, Sean O'Donnell <sean at seanodonnell.com> wrote:
>
> Dustin Laurence wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 20, 2007 at 09:33:20PM -0700, Sean O'Donnell wrote:
> >
> >>>> Dustin Laurence <dustin at laurences.net> writes:
> >>> Sorry, while we probably agree on many specifics of personal freedom,
> I
> >>> do *not* share your theory of government.  In fact, I'm not permitted
> to
> >>> should I wish to, which I don't.
> >>>
> >> There are 3 types of participants: Willing, Unwilling, and Unwitting.
> >>
> >> So, you're either a willing or (obviously not) an unwitting inmate, if
> >> you're unwilling to disassociate (or 'escape') from the control of, in
> >> this case, the political asylum.
> >
> > Rather than try to consider where/whether I fit into your scheme, let me
> > just say that the concept that an individual can opt out is entirely
> > unworkable, and is no different in practice than having no government.
> > That was my point--the idea of individuals opting out is not even
> > tempting, because I know better.  I consider it neither ethical nor
> > legal to try such a thing; but it is certainly incumbent on every
> > citizen to attempt to affect their government for the better, to oppose
> > unethical laws or even disobey them if they conflict with fundamental
> > principles of morality, and even to resort to the final court of appeal
> > and revolt.  But even the last can only be to replace an unjust
> > government with a just one, not to eliminate governments.
> >
> > No government is an impossible fantasy and always has been.  Nature
> > abhors a vacuum, and every attempt to not have a government simply
> > creates a very bad one.  The true result of anarchy is to create a
> > tyranny of the strongest, and as groups are always stronger than the
> > strongest individual the end is a government of whichever gang leader
> > had the most effective and ruthless gang.  The only thing that ever
> > works is to acknowledge that there will be a civil authority and try to
> > do a good job of it.  The default government is the warlord, not no
> > government, and the goal of political theory is to create a better
> > government than that of the warlord and not slip back there later.
> >
> > That's why it's unethical to try to opt out individually--you are
> > helping to go back to the rule of the warlords.
> >
> > Dustin
> >
>
> I have no confidence in a political or legal system that is based upon
> lobbyism.
>
> I don't know what this political system would be like without lobbyism,
> but I imagine (or would prefer to see) that it would actually allow (We)
> the people to make decisions on laws being passed, rather than
> corporations financially influencing these political-hacks to make these
> decisions, for them.
>
> You have to realize, most, if not all, of these corrupt
> laws/bills/politicians, all, in one way or another, stem from lobbyism.
>
> It's unfortunate that that will not change, thus preventing many other
> positive changes, as I see it. =(
>
> --
> Sean O'Donnell
> South Pasadena, CA
>
> sean at seanodonnell.com
> http://seanodonnell.com
>
> PGP Public Key ID: 0xF57FB9E5
> PGP Public Key Server: http://pgp.mit.edu
>
> *The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own
> reason for existing.*
>
>
>


-- 
John Lowry
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.sgvlug.net/pipermail/sgvlug/attachments/20070621/4b058fea/attachment.html