[SGVLUG] hp tech support! - take this!!!

[John Jefferson Lowry IV]

I have never bought the argument that it does more damage. The AR-15, the
civilian model of the M-16, is an amazingly accurate gun. Firearm novices
can hit stuff consistently at 300m in an afternoon of practice. I think that
more than anything else is why the military went with it.

On 7/12/07, Michael Proctor-Smith <mproctor13 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 7/12/07, Dustin Laurence <dustin at laurences.net> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jul 11, 2007 at 05:04:18PM -0700, Michael Proctor-Smith wrote:
> > >
> > > Risking the the reeducation squad and the epa I have to say from
> > > personal experiance that for "spectacular display of dismantlement",
> > > throwing a printer off a multi-story building on to pavement is a way
> > > better show then shooting one.
> >
> > There's still nothing better than a nice blackpowder charge though.
> >
> > > ...Plus I don't have much experiance with
> > > soft targets, but I have used millary hollow-points (wierd in that
> > > they where hollow point riffle ammo with a steel cores, but again they
> > > were of soviet design). They did make bigger holes but still just
> > > holes in the metal and wood object that we were shooting at.
> >
> > That's all bullets are supposed to do--make holes in things that need
> > to have holes put in them. :-)
> >
> > That said, if said object in need of holes is a soft target the exit
> > wound can be quite large.  That's why nobody uses military rounds for
> > hunting; they're far too likely to wound an animal and let it run off
> > bleeding from a puncture wound, because the puncture is small.
> > Mushrooming bullets kill by shock, because the hole *isn't* small.  Part
> > (only part) of the reason muzzleloader calibers run so large is that
> > balls don't really expand well, so the bullet already needs to be large
> > for maximum shock.  (The other reason is the atrocious sectional density
> > of spheres, of course.)
> >
> > THis is related to a small theory of mine that I've never seen verified,
> > but I'm convinced of it nevertheless.  "Rules of war" rarely are obeyed
> > unless they don't inconvenience the war too much.  "Humane bullets" that
> > don't expand are more convenient for military purposes than it seems,
> > because killing a soldier in an army that cares for it's wounded is
> > rather inefficient.  It creates one casualty.  *Wounding* a soldier not
> > only creates the same casualty, it consumes considerable resources in
> > evacuation and medical treatment.  So "humane bullets" are not so much
> > of a sacrifice after all, *if the opponent has sufficiently high
> > standards of casualty care*.
> >
> > One way to test this is to find out where the Russians wanted to use the
> > "poison bullet"--I seem to recall it was in Afganistan against irregular
> > troops who did *not* have to support medical or evacuation resources.
> > (For those that don't know, the Russians managed to design a bullet that
> > was unstable enough to tumble on contact with a soft target, and a
> > bullet ploughing sideways has much of the effect of an expanded bullet
> > without having to expand.)  Also I wonder who else has tried this.
> > Widely deploying unstable bullets for use against a regular Western army
> > (which has a high casualty care burden) would more or less disprove the
> > hypothesis.
>
> Yes, the tumble bullet is why other then a single solder being able to
> carry more rounds that the US adopted the .223(5.56mm). Down sizing to
> a lighter .22 caliber from the .30cal(7.62mm) rounds that had been the
> standard. The claim is that the high velosity low mass .223 round
> tumbles after hitting a person and acctually causes more damage then
> the higher energy .30cal that they replaced.
>
> The sad part is that all our ammo designed to wound poeple is
> acctually a burden on our selves currently. As we tend to shoot the
> irregular we are currently fighting and the care for them as well.
>



-- 
John Lowry
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