[SGVLUG] Plone

[Dustin]

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005, Rich Pinder wrote:

>  one is that it isn't working through apache yet, but
> I haven't tried that and I suppose at worst I can ignore that for now.
> 
> This will be doable - many folks run Zope (Plone) behind Apache.

That's my understanding, that it isn't too bad.

> ...also will
> put the site behind Apache SSL ( Plone/zope send password info in the
> clear)  There are a couple Howto's I've seen up on the Plone/Zope sites

I'm very glad to get a confirmation on this.  I had wondered about this, 
but figured that since Zope has such overwhelming configurability that 
somewhere there was an option to use one of a dozen different kinds of 
encryption.

It does surprise me a little bit, given that Zope would sorta kinda prefer
to be the only server, that it wouldn't do SSL.  For an aweful lot of
things not using SSL isn't even an option.

>  any connection to the Zope port is automagically
> logged in as my admin user
> 
> This is not right, for sure.  One thing I've noticed is that even though
> you use the 'log out' button, unless you exit your browser  (Firefox for
> me), you'll continue to remain connected at the next login. 

Yes, last night I played with the browser and dug around in the docs and
realized this.  I think it is behaving OK, except that you simply can't 
log out.

Any clue why Zope is the only system that can't do this, when much more 
lightweight PHP-based CMSes can log you out just fine?  It seems like an 
amazingly trivial limitation for such a complex and powerful system.

> As far as security - the default setup allows anonymous visitors to the
> site 'join'  (which is what you want I think).

Yes.  This was another symptom of the same problem--I couldn't create a 
new user only because I wasn't logged out with my previous one.

Oh--my impression is that Zope is actually handling the accounts, not
Plone, so that one administers a Plone site through the Zope management
interface.  Is that correct?

> as automagically bumping up a new users permissions to ADMIN - you
> probably can do that with the (rather complex) permissions setups - but I
> doubt its a good idea.

No, making that automatic is the last thing I want.  I just would like the
option to have the server email me that "New account XXX has been
created", as for example Mambo does by default.  It's easier to notice
that someone needs bumping up that way.

> One thing - not sure what versions of the components Apt installed, but
> lots of folks have suggested to me to install manually.

I saw some such recommendation, but for testing purposes I am installing 
so much stuff that I just want it done the simplest possible way.  I can 
believe that for a production site it is worth going to more trouble, 
though Debian packages often have little tweaks I like but would not have 
thought of.

> ...And this info
> from the Plone site indicates the required versions to get things working
> properly:
> 
>        o  Plone 2.0.5 requires Python 2.3.4 or later (not the
>           recently-released 2.4), Zope 2.6 or 2.7 (not the
>           unreleased 2.8), CMF 1.4.7 (not 1.5), and GRUF 2.0.1 (not
>           3). If you deviate from these recommendations you are on
>           your own.

>        o  We still ship Archetypes 1.2.5-rc5 because updating AT in
>           a minor release is not appropriate. You may want to be
>           extra careful when upgrading not to overwrite newer
>           versions of AT. We recommend to download latest 1.3
>           release of Archetypes if you do product development.

poly:/usr/share/doc/zope2.7# dpkg -l python

ii  python         2.3.5-2        An interactive high-level 

poly:/usr/share/doc/zope2.7# dpkg -l | egrep -i 'plone|zope'
ii  plone          2.0.4-3        content management system based on zope and
ii  zope-atcontent 0.2-rc3-2      archetypes-based replacement for Plone/CMF t
ii  zope-btreefold 1.0.1-5        Zope folder that can efficiently contain man
ii  zope-cmf1.4    1.4.7-4        zope content management framework (CMF), 1.4
ii  zope-cmfaction 0.9-2          Actions and icons add-on for Zope Content Ma
ii  zope-cmfcalend 1.4.7-4        zope cmf calendar, 1.4 branch
ii  zope-cmfcore1. 1.4.7-4        zope cmf core services, 1.4 branch
ii  zope-cmfdefaul 1.4.7-4        zope cmf default (basic) content, 1.4 branch
ii  zope-cmfformco 1.0.3-3        zope form validation for cmf and plone
ii  zope-cmfplone  2.0.4-3        content management system based on zope and
ii  zope-cmfquicki 1.5.0-2        zope add-on to easy install cmf/plone produc
ii  zope-cmfsin    0.6.1-2        A simple syndication client for CMF
ii  zope-cmftopic1 1.4.7-4        zope cmf topic, 1.4 branch
ii  zope-dcworkflo 1.4.7-4        fully customizable workflow for cmf-based pr
ii  zope-epoz      0.9.0-1        cross-browser WYSIWYG editor for Zope
ii  zope-externale 0.8-2          Zope External Editor
ii  zope-filesyste 1.3-1          FileSystem Directory Views from CMF
ii  zope-formulato 1.7.0-5        A tool to create and validate web forms in Z
ii  zope-groupuser 3.1.1-3        zope add-on that provides user flagged as gr
ii  zope-kupu      1.1.1-2        Cross-browser document-centric WYSIWYG edito
ii  zope-plonearti 2.0.5-2        plone document that can incorporate images a
ii  zope-ploneerro 0.11-2         error reporting tool for plone 2.0
ii  zope-plonetran 0.6-2          translation files for plone 2.0
ii  zope-pts       1.2-rc1-2      placeless translation service for zope
ii  zope-speedpack 0.3-2          speed optimisation for cmf-based products
ii  zope-ttwtype   0.9.1-5        Enables portal administrators to create new
ii  zope-zaaplugin 2.21-3         collection of ZAttachment plugins
ii  zope-zattachme 2.21-3         simple attachment handler for zope products
ii  zope2.7        2.7.5-2        Open Source Web Application Server
ii  zope2.7-archet 1.3.1-1        A framework for developing and deploying new
ii  zope2.7-genera 1.3.1-1        Widget generator for Archetypes
ii  zope2.7-mimety 1.3.1-1        Mimetypes registry for Zope
ii  zope2.7-portal 1.3.1-1        MIME types based transformations for the CMF
ii  zope2.7-valida 1.3.1-1        Some generic validators original

It pretty much follows what you quoted except Plone is at 2.0.4.

Hey, Sarge is still new, it isn't two years out of date.  Yet. :-)

> The Los Angeles Zope user group meets monthly  - and you can also post
> questions to our site:  www.LAZUG.org
> 
> And of course I'd suggest using this list:
> 
> Plone-users mailing list
> Plone-users at lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/plone-users

Nice to see how much

The major problem is that my impression is still that Zope is more
suitable for maintaining, say, Amazon.com on a big pile of hardware than a
small site running on modest hardware.  The list of dependencies alone
that apt-get needed to install was pretty daunting.  I'm testing it
because I've heard it said that it is easier for users, if not
administrators, to add simple content to, but the complexity and sheer
industrial-strength design is still kind of overwhelming.  Well, I'm also
testing it because we had a nice presentation on Zope/Plone and it seemed
pretty cool and I just wanted to play with it a bit.  But it still feels
like purchasing your own international shipping company just to bring home
groceries that would fit in the saddlebags of your bike. :-)

Dustin